Wayne joins Tyzer Evans on his podcast Grind. Sell. Elevate. to discuss Full Circle Marketing.
Tyzer Evans (00:00):
All right, everybody. Thanks for joining me in Grind Sale and Elevate. This is your host, Tyzer Evans, and I’m here with Wayne Mullins. Wayne, thanks for joining me.
Wayne Mullins (00:19):
Hey, Ty. Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited before our chat today.
Tyzer Evans (00:23):
Yeah, man. So you are the founder of Ugly Mug Marketing. I love, absolutely love the name. You’ve written several books as well around Marketing Space, and I know have really been a really big influencer to entrepreneurs alike all over the world.
Wayne Mullins (00:39):
Yeah, man, I fell into marketing, if you will, about 20 years ago I had a lawn and landscape company, and out of necessity started learning marketing, learning how to put our company in front of the right people at the right time and get the right response from those people. And over the course of a three year period, that company really grew very quickly and started having some of the clients of the lawn care company come to me saying, We see how quickly you’re growing. We see all this, growth, new, new crews working everywhere. What are you doing? How are you doing this? And it was out of those conversations that eventually ugly mug marketing would be born.
Tyzer Evans (01:19):
That’s awesome. So what were some of the first things you think that you, you started to learn that were differentiators or separators that might be still relevant today?
Wayne Mullins (01:28):
Yeah, what I would say is that, the key there is things that are different. So differentiators, right? Things that other people aren’t doing. I think it’s the guy who wrote Story brand, his name escapes me right at this moment mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but the book story brand, Donald Miller, says, if you’re boring, you blend in and you will disappear. And so one of the key ingredients for any marketing is to look around what everyone else is doing in your space and do something that’s different, Don’t think better, think different. And as business owners, we follow in this trap of trying to slightly be better than our competitors. So we try to advertise around better. We try to market around better, but what resonates and what sticks is different. And that is how I grew the lawn care company. That is how we’ve grown the current company, Ugly Mug marketing, And that is really where we lean into with our clients and try to get them to do things that are different.
Tyzer Evans (02:28):
Yeah, I love that because it is too, like better is really subjective, right?I’ve been in the insurance space for a long time and everybody’s got a better product, but it’s really, if you look at it across the board, there’s just nuances of the same product.
Wayne Mullins (02:45):
Yeah, that’s exactly it. One exercise that listeners can do is sit down and write the best ad that you can for your business. So sit down, take a few minutes, write that best ad or even for you, if your salesperson writes the best ad for yourself, why should someone buy from you. And then step back and ask yourself, could another person, could another company say these same same things, right? They may change some of the context a little bit. They may be in business longer, they may use slightly different words, but could they say the same things? And if the answer is yes, that means you’re, you’re better. You’re not different. And so we have to look for the things that make us actually different, and they do exist. So it doesn’t matter who you are, it doesn’t matter what your business is. They do exist, but you have to bring your attention to those things and other people’s attention to those things.
Tyzer Evans (03:36):
Yeah, I really love that. I mean, it reminds me a lot of sales is, I think now it’s almost become cliche like, sell with value. But when I, when I’ve talked to reps, I’m always like, Well, when you sell with value, you want to come from a space of like, what’s different about your value, right? Like, so I, I usually typically think about like blind spots that most companies have. That can be our differentiator in the marketplace when it comes to healthcare or insurance, which is not very exciting. But what I found fascinating about your experiences too is, you’ve worked in over a hundred different interest industries. You’ve worked all over the United States, and I had here that you’ve worked in 11 different countries. So I was just curious, have there been any common themes of things that people do well or mistakes across that broad spectrum?
Wayne Mullins (04:27):
Sure. Great question. What I would say, Ty, is that the number one mistake across the board, regardless of where they’re located, regardless of the industry, the number one mistake is this. When we look at our business, our organization, ourselves, our salespeople for selling, we approach it with these blinders on, right? It’s kinda like a racehorse. They put the blinders on them to keep them focused on the main thing, right? The main thing, the main thing. And the problem is we are so in love as entrepreneurs with our business. It’s our baby. And the lens through which we’re looking at it is jaded. We see things completely differently. And so when we work with clients, regardless of what industry, regardless of where they’re located, the biggest obstacle initially to transforming the way they approach their marketing and transforming the way that people respond to their marketing is actually getting them to remove those blinders and to step into the lens through which the people they are attempting to reach are looking at their business. Yeah,
Tyzer Evans (05:27):
That’s a great way of really looking at it. And we oftentimes, forget about that. It’s just, again, like, having, man, a lot of sales people, when I hear them leave a voice message, I always ask them, Would you call you back? Right? And they, they go, they’re always like, No, I wouldn’t. Right? So I’m like, Okay, then let’s, let’s change that. Like what do you respond to as a consumer? I think it is a great way to come from. So is that, one of the things that you always take as an approach, think about putting yourself in who you’re trying to reach, because you might think it’s a great idea, but your audience you’re trying to target, you think it’s a terrible idea.
Wayne Mullins (06:03):
Yeah, exactly. We’re in love with whatever it is that we do, right? If, if you’re in sales, like you shouldn’t be selling the thing you’re selling if you’re not in love with that thing, if you don’t passionately believe about it. And the same is, is true for entrepreneurs in business, right? Don’t stay in business if you don’t love the thing that you do, whether it’s a service, whether it’s a product you sell. The problem is other people, the people out there in the world, in the marketplace, they don’t love it the same way we do, right? They’ve got their own pain points, they’ve got their own frustrations, they’ve got their own desires, their own dreams, all these other things. They’ve got maybe kids, they’ve got parents who are aging and they’re having to deal with health issues for their parents, or, whatever, all these things taking place may be. And yet, here we are trying to interrupt, trying to throw our message in front of them, saying, Hey, look at me. Look at me. And when it doesn’t work, we then get frustrated and we think that this thing called marketing doesn’t work, or maybe I’m just not good at marketing. When in reality, removing those blinders, which it’s a tough process, know, I’m, I’m gonna tell you now, Todd, that after working with all these different people in all these different industries, it is such a tough thing to get people to view what they do and how they position it from a completely different perspective from the outside in.
Tyzer Evans (07:17):
Yeah. No, I do, I totally agree. And you, you hit, you said the word pain point. I’m curious, when you’re thinking about stepping outside of the box, right? And coming from a perspective of your, of your client, would it make sense to, kind of build like maybe an avatar or list the things that, like you’re just talking about, to attack those issues to kind of like hedge, Is, is that something that you, you would say might be a good idea or am my way off kilter
Wayne Mullins (07:48):
<laugh> You’re spot on Ty. Avatar is a dirty word in the marketing world. So I sit down with the group of entrepreneurs and we start talking about the need to, to go through and build out this avatar. And all of them start nodding their heads like, Yeah, it’s a great, great exercise. Yeah, I need to do that thing. And then you circle back a week later and you say, Okay, so did you do this? Did you create the avatar? No, I hadn’t gotten around to it. I hadn’t done it, et cetera. Creating a customer avatar is probably the number one thing you can do to improve your marketing. You have to take it seriously though. You can’t just say, I already know my customers already know their pain points already, know their frustrations. You have to spend the time, schedule 60 minutes, sit down, and go through what are their pain points, What are their frustrations, what are their desires? What are their hopes? What are their dreams? and then dive into the more demographic information. Where do they live? Where do they work? All of those other things. So on the psychographic information, right, the makeup of the pain points, the frustrations and all of those things, those will help you craft the message. Those will help you speak in terms of words and language that resonates. Because when you can speak and use words that, that are clear to them, that are about them and what they’re experiencing, it cuts through the clutter because so few people communicate with marketing message, marketing messages in that way, and then all the other demographic information that will help you determine where to place your actual campaigns, when where they live, where they work, the number of kids they have, the magazines, the TV shows that gives you direction in terms of where to begin looking to place the campaigns.
Tyzer Evans (09:28):
Makes total sense. As you were, as you were saying that, kind of speaking their language, I just thought of politicians automatically, and it’s a, it’s a terrible analogy, but, that’s one of the things I think that if you look, maybe I don’t wanna use the current administration as an example, but the prior to I think we’re very good representations of people targeting certain audiences and speaking a certain way to bridge the communication gap, irrespective of their political views. I think that they both communicated differently, but tailored their pitch to their audiences and it worked, right?
Wayne Mullins (10:02):
Absolutely. What politicians are great at is surveying the landscape, figuring out where people are moving towards, in other words, their constituents, which direction, which things are, are resonating with them in the moment. And they speak to those things. They’re not speaking about things that their audience, their constituents were talking about two years ago or five years ago, or even what’s most important to them. Good politicians are speaking to what is resonating with their followers during that campaign cycle.
Tyzer Evans (10:34):
Yeah, absolutely. I have you, I’m sure that you have, or if this kind of goes along this same type of theme of like, I could see people going, Well, maybe I don’t know my ideal avatar. I wouldn’t know how to, to build that out. Would it make sense then to grab like a census pool of people and interview them and really ask maybe some probing questions and kind of build it out that way?
Wayne Mullins (10:56):
Absolutely. I think it was, Earl Night Andal who, Earl Night Andal, I forget the name of his, his, he had this really great audio program back in the day, and I forget the name of it, but he had this other one that was lesser known, and he was all about the customer. And how do you understand your customer? How do you get to know your customer? If you go to YouTube and you just type in Earl Night Andal and the customer, or a customer or your customer, it will come up with the name of that video and it, it’s just the audio. It’s really, really good. What I would say is that most of the time the information’s there, we have to be willing to go ask the questions. Like you’re talking about, sit down with them, have coffee, have lunch, do a zoom call, a virtual meetup, whatever it may be. Because they are there, they’re willing to share. They wanna know that you’re interested in what’s going on in their life.
Tyzer Evans (11:46):
Yeah, absolutely. That’s a really great point. Now, I read that you have two fundamental strategies, and we may be able to maybe just maybe hit on both of these, but you said that is like natural law, and so I was hoping that you wouldn’t mind covering those, a little bit.
Wayne Mullins (12:01):
Yeah, absolutely. So the very first one is what we call the natural progression. And this is based on some human psychology. So this is the way that every single person on the planet makes a purchasing decision. So, my background is sales. I love sales. I spent years studying sales and I still really enjoy selling. So the natural progression is simply this. If you think of an old analog clock, a big circular clock that maybe was on the, on the wall when you went to school, and I’m dating myself, <laugh>, maybe now it’s all digital, maybe there’s no clocks. I don’t know. Cause everybody’s got phones. But, an old analog clock with the hour hand and minute hand, the second hand, at the top, remember at 12 o’clock we’re gonna call strangers. So strangers or anybody out there in the world who we believe could benefit from our product or service. In other words, they could receive value from our product or service, but they don’t know about us yet. And so one of the key distinctions between a stranger and what most people would just call a prospect is this, when most people think of prospect and they think of anybody out there in the world who doesn’t know about me, right? These are people out there in the world who could benefit possibly from my product or service. But what we say is a stranger is someone who we understand would truly get value from what it is that we deliver. And that’s the importance of knowing your avatar. So at 12 o’clock, we got strangers over here at three o’clock, we have what we would call friends. So the only difference between a stranger and a friend is that a friend knows about you and they like what it is that you provide. So in order to move somebody from a stranger to a friend, we have to get them to know about us. We have to get them to like us. And oftentimes business owners, entrepreneurs are terrible about this. So let’s just say, Ty, that we go into business together and we open a grass fed beef ranch, we’re gonna sell beef, farm raise, grass fed beef, No, no hormones, no. Whatever the fancy terms are they’re using now. And what most business owners do is they go out there and they, they, they push their message out to the world. They spend money putting their message out to the world. And what they’re doing is they’re putting their message yes, in front of people who love meat, but they’re also putting their message in front of people who are vegan, who are vegetarian, and they don’t think about the fact that they’re wasting money placing that ad in front of those people who will never like them. It doesn’t matter how great your beef is. Yeah, they’re never gonna like you. Right? Those are the first two components of that. So we got strangers, we got friends over here. The next one is customers. So that’s down with the six o’clock spot. There’s one core ingredient that’s needed to move people from a friend to a customer. So from the three o’clock to the six o’clock, and that’s the word trust, no one’s gonna pull out their wallet and hand us money unless they trust that our product, our service, that our company is gonna stand behind, that they’re gonna receive value from the thing that we sell. Now, all of that, So if you think about from the 12 o’clock spot, which is stranger, you got the friends over at three o’clock and you’ve got the customers down here. All of that whole cycle is advertising that is about attracting people to give you money. Now you’ve been around sales, and I’ve, I’m still in sales, I love sales. But we know that salespeople are notorious for bringing people to the point of the transaction. They get the customer to pull out their wallet, hand them money, and then what do they do? Yeah. They run off and go, Yeah, yeah. They run off and go look for the next person. And the same is true of marketers. Marketers believe that their job is to get people to that point of sale, and then their job is done. They’re out there looking for the next stranger to convert to a friend, to convert to a customer. But there’s this whole other side over here at nine o’clock, and we call that evangelist. And so the difference between a mere customer and an evangelist is this, you have to exceed expectations. They have to be wowed by what you’ve delivered. And the beautiful thing about when we create evangelists is this, that evangelists do what they go out and tell other people. They go tell their friends about us, and thereby remove the whole top portion. So in other words, when we have a tribe of evangelists who love us, who are willing to go tell others about us, we no longer have to spend as much money trying to reach those strangers. Why? Because our evangelists are doing the workforce. So that was a long rant about the first one, which is the natural progression, but it’s based on just core human psychology, sales, psychology. And it applies to marketing as well.
Tyzer Evans (16:36):
No, I think, I really appreciate that, and I, I, I appreciate you staying focused. Everybody couldn’t see that I was having an exchange with my wife. So, <laugh>, thanks Wayne for keeping that going. No, it makes a ton of sense. the way that you broke it up to Stranger, and it is true, they, especially pinpointing, kind of bridge that gap to customers. And I especially like the point that, we oftentimes, we don’t realize that we spent so much time, energy, and money bringing someone through the door, and then they’re, they’re just gone to us. Like whoa, that’s where, I’ve, I’ve been fortunate, I’ve always been cognizant of that. We’re just, I recently started a new position and I’ve been focusing on talking to people in the southeast. I lived in Atlanta three years ago, but because of the strength and the service that I delivered, I’ve, I’ve already been able to establish 10 to 15 relationships within a matter of a week. Cuz they remembered me from three years ago. And the way that I was able to excel and give them a certain level of customer service and be attentive to their needs and built an in depth relationship. And a lot of them, I, I still kept up with even outside of the scope of not working with them the last couple years. And so I was just really relevant, thinking about that. I’d love to hear the, the second, the second point though as well.
Wayne Mullins (17:53):
Yeah, absolutely. When you’re, when you’re sharing that story kind of about your transition and still connecting with the people, it reminds me of Joe Gerard. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Joe Gerard. He was known as the world’s greatest salesman. He actually held the Guinness Book World Record for being the greatest salesman in the world. And he was a car salesman. And during the course of his career, I’m gonna get all the stats wrong, but he outsold 95% of all dealerships by himself. And he was not doing fleet sales, he was selling one on one. And Joe’s whole thing was this, that every single person who ever bought a vehicle from him got a card from Joe every single month. Wow. Every single month he was sending out cards. So by the end of his career, he was sending out 12,000 cards per month to his previous customers who had bought from him. Now, obviously, he had help, he had people doing all that work for him, as it grew and got more complex. But Joe never had to worry about the strangers and the friends because he had these evangelists Yeah. Who loved him. They loved seeing the card from Joe. They would always tell their friends and family, Hey, if you need Car Joe’s the man. Go talk to Joe. So I would encourage your listeners to go, go look up Joe and check out and stuff. It’s super fascinating.
Tyzer Evans (19:10):
Oh, I’m glad I wrote it down. I love it.
Wayne Mullins (19:13):
Yeah. Yeah. So, the next principle that we talk about, the kind of fundamental law is this, this stays back to the early 1900. So 1904 I believe was the year this was first written about, and it’s called the AI principle. Ai, and it’s a KN acronym. So each letter stands for something else. So the first one is an A and it stands for attention. So our number one job as marketers, we talked about this earlier, is to capture attention. We live in this world where we’re bombarded with messages, and you can look at all the various stats. Some people say there’s 3000 messages that marketing messages that we get, tuned into or that, that come our way every day. Other people say it’s more like 5,000, regardless. There’s all these messages coming at us. So our first job as marketers, our first job as salespeople is to capture the attention of the person we’re trying to reach. So regardless of whatever business you’re in, whatever field you’re in, look around at what everybody else is doing and try to figure out what you can do that’s different that causes people to notice you. So again, it’s not about being better, it’s about being different. So the first day is attention. The next one is the I. And that is interesting. And this is a very interesting time. Most people mess this up when it comes to their marketing messages. We have to remember that people are interested in their interests, not in our product or service. They’re interested in their interest, not in our product and service. So if we had a company that made golf clubs, people wouldn’t care about our golf clubs. What do they care about their golf game? They care about improving their score, driving farther, having the reputation to be able to drive it farther than the people they normally play with, right? And so they don’t care necessarily about our golf club because if a better club comes along, if someone else can help them drive farther or lower their score, that is what they’re interested in. And so when we craft our messages, we want to make sure that we are speaking to their interests. Yeah. Right? Not what we are interested in, what they are truly interested in, it’s their interest. So the first one is attention, the next one is interest, and the next one’s desire. And so this ties back into the customer avatar. We want to speak to the things that they desire. We want to speak to the things that will alleviate the pain, the frustration, whatever those things may be. We want to speak at that level to them. So it’s not about our product, it’s not about our service. It’s not about how long we’ve been in business or what our reputation is. We wanna speak to them about their desires, whether that’s to remove certain pains and frustrations, or that’s a desire for gain. We wanna make sure we keep our ad centered on that. And then the very last one is an A and that is just for action. We have to tell people what action to take as a result of the message they just saw. We assume that they know what to do next, but we have to be explicit. We have to say, pick up the phone and call. We have to say, click on our website, go to this page. We have to say, stop by tomorrow, whatever it may be. We have to give them super specific instructions on what to do next.
Tyzer Evans (22:25):
Man, love that. Attention, interest, desire, action.
Wayne Mullins (22:29):
Tyzer Evans (22:30):
Yeah. No, it’s a, it’s a beautiful formula if you really think about it, right? Getting their attention. You, you’re appealing to their interests and their desires, and then you’re motivating them to take interest through the former. I love it. And, Wayne, your most recent book, Full Circle Marketing. Does that cover a lot of, of this type of playbook? And can you talk to us a little bit about your book?
Wayne Mullins (22:54):
Yeah, absolutely. So, obviously we do, we are a marketing agency, so we work with clients all over. And what is shared in the book is what we do day in and day out. So it goes through the natural progression in a lot of detail. People often complain that marketing doesn’t work or they’re not good at it. And here’s what I say, I say that they expect too much from one campaign. So if you think back to that natural progression, the clock, when people create that campaign, they assume that it’s gonna move strangers all the way down here to pull out their wallet and hand them money. And so they’re demanding too much from their campaigns. Instead, what we say is you need to break that down. So the question becomes, Ty, what’s the one campaign that you can run to get strangers to know about you and to like you? That’s it. What’s one campaign that you can set up that gets people to simply move from strangers to friends Next, What’s the campaign that we can run to build trust? And here’s an interesting thing. We all know this to be true, but we don’t think about it when it comes to marketing. People would rather trust strangers they’ve never met than to trust you or I as marketers or you or ISL people. Why? Because they know we have a vested interest, right? They know it’s our baby, it’s our product, or we’re gonna get commission off the cell or whatever it may be. And so they would rather trust people they’ve never met than to trust you or I as the marketers or the sales people. And so when we know that and we acknowledge that, we can say, What can I do to manufacture trust through other people? So that’s, referrals, that’s testimonials, that’s all of those things that we could have in our arsenal, but we don’t take the time to develop, We don’t take the time to utilize. And then we complain that this marketing thing, this sales thing is so difficult and reality is we’re just violating some very natural human psychology. Yeah. That says you gotta build trust. And one of the best ways to build trust is for other people to speak highly of you, your product or service your company.
Tyzer Evans (25:03):
Yeah. No, that’s, that’s a hundred percent true. I mean what’s interesting too about that I know from, I don’t know from a market marketing perspective, but from a sales perspective, the stat is that 90% of your customers would re give you a referral, but only 10% of sales people actually ask for one.
Wayne Mullins (25:22):
It’s insane, crazy
Tyzer Evans (25:23):
Wayne Mullins (25:25):
Oh, it’s absolutely insane. I was just meeting with someone, just two weeks ago, and it’s a financial advisor. He has a small firm, they have five advisors in their firm, and they manage this. This one gentleman manages about 800 million worth of assets, very, very successful. And he asks a simple question every single time he talks to somebody, he simply says, Hey Ty, you probably already know this, but in case you don’t, our business grows and thrives based on people just like you telling their friends and family about the service that we provide. Would you mind me asking for the name of one person who you think could benefit from having a conversation with me? And that’s the simple, this, the simple setup, the simple phrase, he has it on a note card, it sits on his desk in a little frame, and he asks every single person, he basically reads that script. And what he was telling me? He was saying that the other people in his office would not ask that simple question. They’re, I don’t know if they’re afraid, they, they, they’re going sing pushy or whatever’s gonna be, Yeah, and here you’ve got this guy who manages, probably 10 x what they’re managing. And he asked this one simple question, like you said, people are willing to do it if we’re willing to ask.
Tyzer Evans (26:42):
Yeah, a hundred percent. I was lucky enough to meet a guy that taught me that when I started off in my sales career. And so every person kind of likes, not what Joe did, but I always send out a thank you note and usually follow up with a birthday card and then like a six month check in. So I had multiple touch points throughout the year, but when I sold a new piece of business, and I still do this today, I had always sent, especially when I was b2c, I would send a thank you note asking for a referral, and I’d put in five business cards. And it was crazy. My second year, I was only 26, my business skyrocketed. I think I was number 10, before I got promoted to 800 agents in Southern California. And I was working way less. And everybody thought, I swear to God, some people thought I was cheating. And I was like, No man, I’m just simply just asking for the business and people are simply just giving it to me. It was like a weird concept, right?
Wayne Mullins (27:35):
Yep. And what’s interesting about that tie is that that is a long-term strategy. That is a long-term game, right? Most people don’t play the game long term. They’re so shortsighted. Yeah, Right? They’re thinking while you’re sitting there right now at your thank you notes and wasting time sticking in the mail and, doing all that stuff, they’re over there dialing for dollars, right? Or knocking on doors or whatever it may be. They’re so shortsighted that they can’t see the long term benefit, the long term value, and yet when they hear it, they know that it works. Right? They see evidence, like your story’s perfect evidence of that exact thing working. It’s building relationships. It’s turning ordinary customers into evangelists for you, for your business.
Tyzer Evans (28:21):
Love that. Couple more questions for you, Wayne. I’m really enjoying this conversation. I think one of the things that comes up, and I’m always curious about, I’ve had a couple eCommerce businesses online that I’ve started, and so a lot of that was heavy on the marketing side. And we’ve all used to getting our inboxes inundated with people trying to get us to know who they are and what they do and whatnot. And some of these people, like, I get tilted three or four times a day, and like the frequency is so crazy with the automation that it’s almost a turnoff. So I didn’t know your perspective. Is there like a nice cadence you think is acceptable or is that really per, industry or vertical?
Wayne Mullins (29:01):
Unfortunately the answer is gonna be based on the industry or based on the vertical. The other thing that’s gonna be based on kind of, what is the norm within that, and here’s what I would say though, just because it’s the norm or just because it’s, it’s what is normal within your industry or within your vertical. What I would say is look for ways that you can show up differently for those people. So,LinkedIn right now is getting bombarded with people trying to sell and trying to pitch services and all that. So the question simply becomes how can you show up differently for those same people? So LinkedIn makes it super easy to figure out where people work, what their position is. You could do a little bit more, and I know there’s all these advanced tools within LinkedIn. I don’t use ’em, but I’m sure it’d be quite easy to figure out what’s the address to put something in the mail to actually mail that person something. So imagine this, I get every day I’m getting a bunch of people trying to pitch me something on LinkedIn. Imagine if I got a card in the mail that says, Hey, you don’t know me. We connected on LinkedIn the other day and I just wanted to let you know that I saw the post you did the other day. I thought that was really neat, or I saw that, whatever, you got a promotion or whatever the things may be. I just wanna let us offer this amazing thing. If you ever in the market or ever feel like you need X, Y, or Z, let me know, love to chat with you about how we needed the help. Imagine how different that would be received versus all the ones that I’m completely ignoring that are still marked as unread because I know they’re trying to pitch me something, right? Yeah. So look for ways to show up differently within that vertical, within that niche, using the same tool, right? So you can use that same tool to identify the people, but show up differently for them.
Tyzer Evans (30:46):
Yeah, I love that. It’s interesting, my wife and I were talking about this, because it’s like, if I look right now on my phone, I, not kidding, well, you can’t see it, but I have 34,000 unread emails, right? And that’s because I manage a couple different boxes for different things, but that’s like a shitload of emails that I’ve gone completely by the wayside. And so I think everybody is so inundated with LinkedIn or if I open up my Instagram, same thing, I’ll get hit with several different messages. Thank God that most of ’em are filtered to the hidden messages nowadays. But we actually look forward to it. My wife and I will fight over who goes to the mailbox. We actually look forward to getting mailed. And 10 years ago it wasn’t that way. It was like, Oh, this is just junk mail. Right? And so I think that your point really hits home. It is just looking for those key differentiators, even going back to old school tactics like thank you cards and asking for referrals. It’s just, nobody does that.
Wayne Mullins (31:44):
Yeah, absolutely. It’s again, it’s not about being better, right? Not about figuring out how to write better copy than everyone else pitching on Instagram or pitching on LinkedIn. It’s not about saying your company’s better because X, Y, and Z. It’s about being different, showing up differently for those people. It will win every single time. Being different will win every single time over someone who’s better.
Tyzer Evans (32:09):
Yeah, I totally agree. Wayne, and I’ve really enjoyed the conversation and you’ve provided a tremendous amount of value in a short amount of time, so I sincerely appreciate that. If people want to connect with you or work with you, or even purchase your book, where can they find you and access all that?
Wayne Mullins (32:26):
Sure. The simplest place to connect is just on our website. That’s ugly mug marketing.com. Email addresses, all the other stuff’s right there on the website. The book is available online at all the retailers. So they can grab it there. Full Circle Marketing is the name of the book. And if you don’t mind, can I leave just with one little tiny, kind of idea for people?
Tyzer Evans (32:48):
Oh, of course. Yeah, go ahead.
Wayne Mullins (32:50):
Sure. So there are two questions, and these are super obvious questions when you hear me say them. But when you hold yourself accountable to answering these two questions, or when you hold your team accountable for answering these two questions every single day, magic happens in terms of sales and revenue. So without further ado, here’s these magic questions that are so simple and so obvious, but when we hold ourselves accountable, they produce phenomenal results. It’s this question number one, what have I done to attract a customer today? What have I done to attract a new customer today? And then question number two, what have I done to intentionally keep slash convert and existing customers today? That’s it. Those two simple questions. If you hold yourself accountable to answering those every single day, hold your team accountable for answering those every single day. It will literally transform the sales and the revenue that comes into your business, your organization.
Tyzer Evans (33:48):
I totally believe it. And thank you for that. Sincerely appreciate it, everybody listening, or watching. I will have all of Wayne’s information for his company in the book and the show notes. All you need to do is scroll, hit the link to the website, pop over. I’ve had other marketing people on the show and, and they’re great at what they do. But Wayne, I I think you’re one of the best marketers without the best market I’ve ever talked to, just with your philosophy. And I sincerely mean that. So, there’s a lot of entrepreneurs and sales people alike that listen to this, and I really encourage you guys to go work with him and his company. So thank you so much for coming on and, and sharing your knowledge.
Wayne Mullins (34:28):
Yeah, thank you so much for the kind words, Ty, and I’ve enjoyed our conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you.
Tyzer Evans (34:33):